[Greg]

Passed on from Chris T, MCC of NSW Delegate

Quote

Frontal Identification for Motorcycles

A feasibility study is under way to develop a fitting to suit a wide range
of motorcycles. This will be followed by a program of environmental testing,
and it is expected that by mid-2004 a system will be in place to enable
frontal identification to be fitted to all motorcycles.

The Australian Motorcycle Council (AMC) expressed concerns that no clear
case had been established for the safety benefits of frontal identification
and that it would cost motorcyclists an estimated $4.5 million to comply.
The AMC put the view that the contribution of speed to motorcycle crashes
may be overestimated in road crash statistics, and that the increase in
motorcycle crashes may be related to an increase in exposure.

It was pointed out that the relationship between speed and crash risk has
been the subject of considerable research, and small increases in travel
speeds have been shown to result in a rapid escalation of crash risks. Speed
enforcement for motorcycles is undermined by the lack of frontal
identification and motorcycle crash rates have risen alarmingly in recent
years.

It was noted that Vicroads was consulting closely with the Victorian
Motorcycle Council on this issue.


read more here:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/nrss/nrssp_290803.cfm


If you feel like you can help the MotorCycle Council of NSW fight against
this kind of poop then please get back to me.

ChrisT
MCCofNSW, BikersAnon  christ@resmed.com.au

[Greg]

The government has taken their usual head up their own arse attitude of "We are the government so we know whats right and nothing you can do or say will convince us otherwise."



I'm very much geting the impression from many people involved in this that their will be some very big protest rallies held in the near future.

[The_Business55]

If that happens, I'm gonna take one for the team and go for a dive over the front bars, making sure the number plate is responsible for as many injuries as possible.

Then, I'm going to go on ACA and sue the government for negligence, especially if I can get my hands on a copy of those reports. Speed enforcement, eh? What an absolute load of bollocks! It's fucken revenue enforcemnent - everyone knows it. We've just got to make a big enough stink over it.

[The_Business55]

I just can't understand how the can legally introduce something which has been found by people who know (ie - the manufacturers) to be dangerous and defective and still have it compulsory?

Surely, that is negligent, and someone should be held accountable. Seriously, if they introduce it in NSW, watch for some dickhead with an Across filing the first lawsuit - I've already decided what I'm going to do with the millions.....

[Greg]

The worst bit is that it's the federal government trying to push this through this time and not just one or 2 states. If it gets through it will become a nationwide thing, not just a couple of states.

[Lord_DJ]

hmm... well living in the home of the bikies that could be an interesting thing to see them trying to implement it around here. As is the cops are seriously outgunned... ah well time will tell wont it

[flightcrank]

i read it but i dont get it.

is the reson for it so cops can catch bikers speeding? so they have a better chance of getting your plate number ??

yeah it sucks anyway ill put up $50 says itll never happen

[AIP]

why shouldn't it happen though? what difference does it make to eastern states riders? they have multi nova's taking photo's from the rear anyway. i've allways questioned why they can't have a soft bendable rubber plate that can be attached. nobody can tell me it will cause more injury to a pedestrian etc... if you hit them. as with everything, if you have nothing to hide and obey the law, cop it sweet and get on with it. just my 2 cents worth

[flightcrank]

bah

[The_Business55]

Man, if you knew the s##t fight you have to go thru to get a License in NSW, you'd wanna protect it too. It's not like in Perth! I know a guy who's just come over here from WA, and he can't even ride a bike - yet he's fully licensed to ride anything unrestricted - it's a joke.

As for having nothing to hide, there is considerable evidence to suggest that the majority of Speed Camera's are defective or faulty to a degree. Don't give the pricks any more a of a chance - don't tell me that a lot Speed Camera's are not placed deliberately to try and catch out motorists. Not really talking about the fixed ones, you get plenty of notice for those ones - but the shitbox non-fixed ones (Camera Car) they dump on the side of the road behind trees/bushes/bus-shelters and a whole heap of other places they're not legally permitted to.

I have been caught speeding twice - both times by Non-Fixed Speed Camera's. It really pisses you off when you get the flash, and you turn around to discover the Camera is placed about 10 metres into a 60 Zone, and you were slowing down from 80. It's bullshit, but you can't really dispute it - they know that it's far easier to pay the $140 or whatever than fight them over it - even if you're right. Carnts!

[flightcrank]

yeah ive seen on the news that people had to get there cash back after a faulty speed cam said they were speedin but they were'nt,

i guess cus nsw (sydney) is the biggest city in ais there must be heaps of cops and stuff. there is here too but... ive never been caught speeding in the three+ years i had my licence. but yeah some cops near where i live set up cameras on roads where its like a 60 zone but theres like a ulta ulta massive hill so wen ur cars or bike goes down it it pickes up heaps of speed. and the go on that road not to keep people safe from speeders but to catch as many people as they can

[boz au]

Quote

yeah it sucks anyway ill put up $50 says itll never happen

The worst part is that in Victoria we have all had to put up $50 which may go towards it happenning here (the $50 'safety levy' that the state government has put on bikes). Although a person on VMAC (victorian motorcycle advisory council) has indicated that this won't happen, one still doesn't know...

[Greg]

Unfortunately from what I've heard, VMAC has no bite to back up its bark. Different story here however as the MCofNSW is made up of Bike Clubs and not a token group of riders as seems to be the case in vic. The last MCofNSW ride day had over 1,500 bikes show up. This was just a ride day, nothing special like a charity run or the like.

[Pete_026]

Like AIP said. if you not doing anything wrong what are you winging about. and ill also wager $50 dollars it wont happen anyway.

Quote

Man, if you knew the s##t fight you have to go thru to get a License in NSW, you'd wanna protect it too. It's not like in Perth! I know a guy who's just come over here from WA, and he can't even ride a bike - yet he's fully licensed to ride anything unrestricted - it's a joke.

and i say to this have you done your licence in WA lately. they dont give you your licence here unless you pass an on road test. and they dont like passing ppl. i dont know what your friends circumstances are. eg did he get it 20yrs ago or was it resent. if the later i will suggest he is full of s##t.

[NiSmO]

even to get a bike licence 15 years ago in syd it was completely different, my dad you did a written test for ls and got them, the for ps the guy stood out the front and said ok go here turn right there and then do a u turn, people used to go around the corner come back in 5 mins and then u got your full licence lol, also there were no restrictions for power on ls my dad had a twin 650 on his ls and apparently you couldnt actually lose yours ls all you did was pay the fine etc and you could keep doing this ahha havent times changed

[motnaf]

and just to stir things a little more didnt i hear that the nsw and/or vic governments are spending a cupla million or so on a huge amount more of fixed speed cameras this year?

[AIP]

Quote

to discover the Camera is placed about 10 metres into a 60 Zone, and you were slowing down from 80. It's bullshit, but you can't really dispute it - they know that it's far easier to pay the $140 or whatever than fight

well i thought the sign was there to make sure you are doing 60 when you reached it, not 10 or 100 metres after the sign?

[phanoongy]

My only objection on front plate is…..where can you put it with out making the front of the bike look ugly……there are allot of bikes that just don’t have room to have one!

[Greg]

The bigger issue is stability and engine cooling. Hence why many of the manufacturers are going to void their waranties if a front number plate is fitted.

[phanoongy]

I guess the way I was looking at it, if it’s not safe they would not bring it in, but they would do it if it only was “looks” the plate was affecting, but I may be wrong if they think they can do it even though they have been told it could void warranties

[Greg]

Well I've just returned from a Bikers Annon meeting where several members from the MCCofNSW showed up. Basically because the states lost the arguement about front numberplates the Fed gov has decided to take it up just to piss off every motorcyclist in the country(i.e revenue raising). The MCCofNSW does indeed plan to fight this all the way to the supreme court if necessary, but in order to do so requires the active help of everone who is opposed to this idea. If you have any ideas re how to combat this problem then they want to hear from you. I have an un official understanding with the Bikers Annon club that any ideas put forward here will be passed on by them as MCCofNSW delegate have to be members of a registered motorcycle club to be eligable to make comment or sugestions. This just covers their arse in case things get nasty in court, which they are pretty sure it will.

If anyone here has any sugestions then please put them up. A good idea is still a good idea no matter who came up with it, so please don't think this is one for the legal boffins to handle. If we don't stand up for ourselves and fight this then we may as well roll over and accept the fact of front numberplates, then black boxes which will be the next step.

On a lighter note, I just won a free track day at Eastern Creek

[motnaf]

wotcha gonna take on the track?

[Greg]

Same thing as last time, the Across. the pic in my sig was taken at Eastern Creek.

[motnaf]

were u racing then..was it stock standard??

[Greg]

Track days are not a race, just a high speed practice session realy but a tone of fun when you don't come off

[Greg]

Nahh this is the federal gov Musty, Vic is the main culprit as this was initially quashed here in NSW. And the federal gov needed both Vic and NSW to aprove it for the other states to fall in line under the old agreement. Now the Fed Gov is legislating to make it law in every state, taking the decision away from the state governments.

Our testing is schedualed to start in March and run for 3 months. We basically need to bombard the local federal representatives along with state members to get this shite overturned. It will probably take a majour effort to get this overturned but its somewthing that has to be done as many manufacturers are going to stop offering waranties as a result. And under the Fair trading act that simply means that they will stop brining new models into the country, grey imports will be a nightmare to get parts for and insurance will go through the roof.

The fed gov seems to be doing its damndest to outlaw motorcycles one way of the other. Pitty we cant outlaw the brainless do gooders who get into power from holding gov jobs.

[Greg]

A huh

[Greg]

Could not have said this better myself.

From the BA forums

Quote

"David has hit this one on the mark".

If the Government used the same paradigms for analysing 'Air Safety' as they
are currently using for 'Road Safety', they would have to conclude that the
cause of death in a 'plane crash was because the 'plane was going too fast
when it hit the ground. "Cause of death / injury = speed! "

-----Original Message-----
From: David Scott Sent: Wednesday, 7 January 2004 7:54
Subject: speeding - different view of same stuff


The difficulty that we face here, is that our politicians and senior
bureaucrats are looking for a "silver bullet".  That is, one single, simple
thing they can do to fix the problem (or at least look like they are fixing
the problem). 

So they want one cause for the road toll, so that they can have one solution
for it.  The "cause" presented to/by them is speed.  Therefore, the "answer"
is speed control.  (They, of course, like many other people incorrectly read
"speed" as "speeding").

They are not interested in the fact that no problem is that simple (and the
road toll certainly is not).  And if they have to "creatively interpret"
some statistics to justify their cause/answer, they see that as a perfectly
justifiable action.

Unfortunately, while they continue to be unwilling to accept that the
majority of road crashes are complex interactions of numerous compounding
factors, they will never stumble onto an actual solution to the problem.

As a matter of interest, I raised this with Dr. Alan Buckingham (the British
sociologist that wrote the paper criticising Speed Cameras) while he was out
here.  I used the research into aircraft crashes to illustrate my point
regarding highly complex interactions (where, typically, no individual
factor would cause a crash, but the accumulation of numerous factors would
lead to one relatively minor factor being "the straw that broke the camel's
back"). 

Alan immediately saw a parallel with what he spent most of his time
researching ... sociological problems in Britain.  He said that the most
common question he was asked by the British politicians was along the lines
of "what single factor causes Britain to have so many people on welfare?
Poor education?  Poor housing?  Poor health?"  He would respond yes to all
of these, as the problem is a combination of all of them (and a number of
others).  The politicians would respond "No, tell us which ONE".

The difficulty we face in relation to speed control is basically step one in
AA's 13 step program ... you have to accept the realities of your problem
before you can start on a solution.

[matc]

if its cause they care and wanna take our rego number if we happen to go through a speed camera a bit quick .... then turn em around so they take back on piccys

[AIP]

someone please post a VALID reason for being opposed to front identification coz so far I read nothing that would fight the arguement