[mattysshop]

thought i'd contibute some more of my experiences and conversions etc with everyone.. my apologies for the lack of pics, i will edit this post again tonight with lots of pics from this setup i did for my JDM AE86 (which i ran a smallport in) including videos etc.. PLEASE NOTE some of this applies specific to AE86.. but will be pretty much the same as in a FWD layout.. maybe just chaning some hose directions??

installing 20V quads onto (in this case) a smallport 4age.. just to quickley point out.. the 20V quads WILL RUN ON THE STOCK 4AGE ECU.. and you should have no dramas running it like this as least untill you can afford a aftermarket ECU.. eg adaptronic.. but you will notice it use considerably more fuel.. as the TPS and MAP conflict with eachother.. and the vaccume to pull the fuel reg open isn't the greatest

Required items

Silvertop 20v quads, complete if you can..
Silvertop 20v TPS (hopefully you get it with the quads)
Manifold adaptor eg – tecnotoytuning (they make big and small port ones, price - $259 USD plus freight)
3mm vac hose (2m max)
5mm vac hose (2m max)
3mm t pieces/elbows
5mm t pieces/elbows
5-6mm barb fittings
inlet manifold gasket
JDM AE86 throttle cable?
Acess to a drill press/or a vace with a electric drill
Tap/die set
Small bit of sheet ally (to make a throttle cable bracket)
Hacksaw/file (to cut/shape ally bracket)
Steel cable, cable clamp from a bike shop (for accel cable)


1. remove fuel rail/manifold/tvis (if fitted) etc from the head

2. the manifold adaptor you have.. I’m going to use the T3 one for an example, the billet CNC machined adaptor, is a stunning manifold, I almost didn’t want to put it on it looks soo good! use a drill press tap 4 holes in the bottom of the manifold, 1 in each runner, infront/behind the 3mm ones.. NOT beside.. you might not be able to get to the studs if you put them beside them.. then tap thread into the ally for the barbs you have chosen, nice and easy in ally.. this is to link together with the 5mm vac hose to act as a balance tube (much smoother idle) and as a very strong vac for the brake booster.

3. The T3 one comes with 4 3mm fittings in each runner, as they are all separate I ran 3mm vac hose with elbows/t pieces linking them all up, and facing the firewall.. I used this to run the Map sensor as pic above

4. make a small right angle bracket with 2 holes that bolt into 2 of the throttle bodies.. I just cut a U shape and used the throttle cablenuts to tighten either side of it.. you’ll see the 2 holes I’m talking about.. there only small!

5. bolt the throttles to the manifold.. make sure all the vac hose is hooked up.. use zip ties as hose clamps




6. bolt the complete manifold on the head with the new gasket

7. I used my JDM throttle cable, having a 4AGE in there you should have a similar length cable.. I just pulled it through under the pedal to the correct length as it was about 6 inches too long and used a grubscrew cable clamp from a bike shop as the new end on the pedal.. just leave the bit of cable hanging around there.. I did.. ha ha

8. that’s about it.. fine tune the length of the cable on the car..

9. bolt on your injectors and rail to the head.. connect up the fuel lines..

10. plug in your booster line and map line

11. i had to rewire the 20V TPS in reverse so it would read properly like so

tps side > loom side
brown > yellow
Blue > red
Red > Blue
Yellow > brown

12. run one vac line to the fuel reg from one of the ITB's.

13. start her up.. see how she idles.. the individual idle screws I didn’t really touch.. nor the butterfly adjusment ones.. I just use throttle cable tension for idle speed (it's seriously not as bad as you think..) ..as long as you checked that they opened evenly on the bench.. adjust so they all move at the same time etc..

the stock 4AGE ecu will run them ok.. but it will run on the rich side.. i didn't test an SAFC, eventually i just went straight to a aftermarket ecu using only TPS vs RPM type tune.. which was great!

this is a quick video, running the stock ECU (in this case it was a AE82 twinky ecu/loom i used as i had a GZE in it befor this..)

right click and save as





Matty.

This post has been edited by mattysshop: 28 March 2007 - 08:16 AM

[mattysshop]

sorry i forgot to mention, BLOCK off the cold start injector fitting with a bolt on the fuel rail.. this is not need whatsoever... there will be plenty of fuel running into her..

[4AG-ESX]

the question is what diferance douse it make on the performance side of things ?

[mattysshop]

alot more mid range punch, you have to control your accelerator useage at low RPM.. like half throttle a little here and there to bring air speed up.. and what seems to be a never ending top end.. with stock smallport cams! i turned it to 8 every day once i had the adaptronic (shamless plug to Kaizen garage) in... with a softish launch (2nd run of the night, didn't get to do crazy launch 3rd run cos of other ppls breakages..) ran 15.5 @ 89mph..

here are some links to videos...

link to other topic

i think Josh Young was the one who told me.. 'Matty, there is nothing quite like the sound of an ITB 16V on song'

to put in into perspective..

the smallport that i rebuilt.. was pretty much run of the mill with severe duty acl bearings, i made the top ring gapless, cleaned up the ports a little.. added quads.. and then 106rwhp with a small restrictive airbox on, which was soon removed which made a hell of a difference buy itself.. never had it back on the dyno after that.. but i am certain that it would have been about 115rwhp.. this is with stock 232 duration 7.1mm lift smallport cams..

would pull out in front of s/t 20v equipped AE86's... the stock ecu will not allow the quads to run at their full potential.. no where near it...

[Riley]

how much would it set you back - and would it be worth it?

[mattysshop]

if you have aftermarket cams etc etc it would definitly be worth it, i did mine on a stock 100kw motor.. and it was quite quick! left even 20V power AE86's behind.. i was getting cams etc for it.. but then stopped with engine work and concertrated more on suspension/brakes..

T3 adaptor - $249USD
quads - $150 a set (approx 2nd hand ofcourse)
some gaskets/vac hose/tpeices etc - $60?

and a few hours... your set.. but running on stock ECU is not the best.. no where near it's full potential.. but non the less it will run drive.. rev out to limiter.. just like it would normally.. but be power robbing rich.. and very bad fuel economy will result.. so aftermarket managment IS needed.. and should only be run on the stock ecu to eliminate problems.. i might also suggest making the balance tube a little larger and try to get it closer to the ports as possible, maybe even drill straight into the sides of the T3 manifold to have a hole in each leading into the other.. this balance tube is quite neecessary to run the Map sensor...

[trdee]

can something like this be done to a 3sGE/FE? i really like the look of quads with trumpets.

[mattysshop]

my original plan was to do this onto a Gen2 SW20 3SGE.. but had a 100kw 4ag with a blown h/g and used that instead.. as the quad manifold you can buy off the shelf.. and pretty much every thing was simple bolt together.. (i had time restrictions) i would have loved to do the 3SGE with quads.. would have been fantastic!

it most certinly can.. but this is for map sensor models.. AFM will reqire a sealed air box.. and i'm not sure of the results it will net..

[mattysshop]

i would not bother with an FE.. would upgrade to a GE.. then tweak that..

[trdee]

way ahead of you...engine conversion planned for the end of the year if i can scrounge together the funds. just looking into this as a future mod.

does the GEN3 3sGE use AFM or MAP?

[kes16v]

would this fit into a FWD engine bay.....??? as it looks quite large....

and also sorry for the noobness but what is Silvertop 20v TPS ????

jsut to clarify it...
lol

[kes16v]

would this fit into a FWD engine bay.....??? as it looks quite large....

and also sorry for the noobness but what is Silvertop 20v TPS ????

jsut to clarify it...
lol

[mattysshop]

a silver top 20v TPS is the TPS on a silver top 20v...

glossery

TPS - Throttle position sensor..
20V - 20 valves, in this case 5 per cylinder..
Silver top is the nick name given to this version of the 4AGE, as it has a silver top..

i hope that helps...

i don't know if it fits a FWD.. but the factory 20V stuff clears it easily, and this isn't really any bigger/smaller.. just the trumpets are different.. you could prolly bolt on the factory 20V airbox in fwd...

[mattysshop]

gen 3.. MR2 version is MAP.. as in the post 94 modle MR2... unsure about the import stuff.. i would like to think toyota didn't use AFM's (at least of that design) this late.. but you never know..

[Toyrolla]

kes16v, on Apr 2 2007, 02:22 PM, said:

would this fit into a FWD engine bay.....??? as it looks quite large....

and also sorry for the noobness but what is Silvertop 20v TPS ????

jsut to clarify it...
lol

Check out WhiteSX's car Project NAR The Phoenix (before it died again)

[trdee]

mattysshop, on Apr 2 2007, 03:21 PM, said:

gen 3.. MR2 version is MAP.. as in the post 94 modle MR2... unsure about the import stuff.. i would like to think toyota didn't use AFM's (at least of that design) this late.. but you never know..

well then it's all good . *adds quads to my "to-do" list*

[kes16v]

a silver top 20v TPS is the TPS on a silver top 20v...

glossery

TPS - Throttle position sensor..
20V - 20 valves, in this case 5 per cylinder..
Silver top is the nick name given to this version of the 4AGE, as it has a silver top..

i hope that helps...

i don't know if it fits a FWD.. but the factory 20V stuff clears it easily, and this isn't really any bigger/smaller.. just the trumpets are different.. you could prolly bolt on the factory 20V airbox in fwd...


i knew all that stuff except what the abbreviation TPS was hahaha.. cheers mate...

and aslo anyone got a link to whitesx project???

[cannonball]

Nice writeup Matty

In your example, you have added an extra 5mm barb to each port.
Would it be as good, or perhaps better, to just remove the existing 3mm barbs and drill out the holes, and replace them with four 5-6mm barbs, and run a single 5-6mm size balance tube to a small resevoir, or "collector" which then has two fittings, one to run to the booster, the other to the MAP sensor?

This would halve the amount of holes in the ports, causing less disturbance, and overall be a neater finish. Only problem is would it provide enough vacuum for the booster, and also the MAP sensor?

[4AG-ESX]

yeh like this one ,, use a vaccume manifold

[mattysshop]

you could use somthing like that.. this is just the way i concluded would be the best at 3am in the morning in the garage..

i know there are a few ways i could have inproved things.. but didn't.. and some things i could have done to save potential time..

[physco88au]

when talking after market management wouldnt something like an SAFC or DFA be enough, as there are no changes to ignition. although a proper aftermarket management would be better, would the above be an imrovement over stock ECU?

Josh

[mattysshop]

no... they will only change the mixtures slightly on WOT... WOT isn't really the problem.. it's open loop.. you'd need somthing more like a Emanage etc ...

i just went and gave Ant the go ahead to thrown an Adaptronic in her.. was the best move i ever did! will definitly be using an adaptronic in my 20v.. possibly go down the turbo path.. or just do a 2ZZ-GE conversion.. still using the adaptronic.. won't have any dramas with that..

i know some ppl like razor back ecu from Sam.. but me personally.. well it's like running windows XP on a commodore 64.. the razor back can't process enough data compared to say an adaptronic which is a fully functional stand alone ECU, you'd be suprised what the adaptronic can do.. and IMO much better and more featured than Haltech/microtec for the same if not less money..

[kes16v]

do you know of anyone who is willing to do this conversion in NSW for me, as im not the most equipped or knowledgable handy man aswell, i mean if i supplied all teh parts, ie the quads and vac hoses etc. it would be much easier for me to pay someone then me do it and get it wrong, i am really wanting this done as it seems to work really good for the ammount of money..

please help out guys

[physco88au]

kes16v, on May 7 2007, 06:31 PM, said:

do you know of anyone who is willing to do this conversion in NSW for me, as im not the most equipped or knowledgable handy man aswell, i mean if i supplied all teh parts, ie the quads and vac hoses etc. it would be much easier for me to pay someone then me do it and get it wrong, i am really wanting this done as it seems to work really good for the ammount of money..

please help out guys

you should grab the quads on ebay now. their in SA but are a decent price

[trdee]

Bumpity. The AW11 I picked up came with a set of quads/adaptor plate which the previous owner tried to install, but he found that the plate/quads fouled on the water pump housing, and they were damaged in the process of trying to make them fit Has anyone else had an issue with mounting quads in a fwd or in an AW11?? I have searched on the technotoytuning site and they have adaptor plates for bigports and smallports but not FWD/RWD. Any suggestions?

[Deceiver]

trdee, on Dec 23 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

Bumpity. The AW11 I picked up came with a set of quads/adaptor plate which the previous owner tried to install, but he found that the plate/quads fouled on the water pump housing, and they were damaged in the process of trying to make them fit Has anyone else had an issue with mounting quads in a fwd or in an AW11?? I have searched on the technotoytuning site and they have adaptor plates for bigports and smallports but not FWD/RWD. Any suggestions?

Do you even know what you're talking about right there?

[mattysshop]

the fwd and rwd rear water pump housing and the top rad hose fitting on the head are different.. the only way to make this work is to use RWD parts..

you can get the rear water pump housing (which containes the thermostat) from an RWD 4AC corolla/sprinter.. but the top outlet on the head WILL have to come from a RWD 4AGE.. unless you know somone that can cut/weld ally and change the position of it around a little..

[trdee]

LOL-16V, on Dec 24 2007, 01:07 AM, said:

Do you even know what you're talking about right there?

Technotoytuning supplies different manifold adaptors for bigports and smallports, but does not have different adaptors relating to whether the motor is going to be used in a FWD layout or RWD layout, which would make you assume the manifold adaptors can be used in either configuration... but they can't.

Do you know what you're talking about?

And thanks for the info matty. edit; actually matty do you know of an adaptor from another company that can bolt on directly to a fwd-configured 4A-GE?

This post has been edited by trdee: 24 December 2007 - 03:06 PM

[SXseca]

anychance of getting those pics in the openign post renewed?

[JC807]

maybe T3 don't supply them to suit FWD as they assume you would just swap out to a 20v for an easy FWD conversion.