[SXseca]

i am also sorry AE82rollaboy i did miss read your post haha. ill be sure to know what im talking about before i help next tim e:P lol

so you recomend the T3 adaptor then?

[trdee]

ae82rollaboy. i matched up one of the silvertop itbs just now and to me they look like they match up a helluva lot better than in your pic. they do not "step down" like your blacktop set does. They look perfectly spherical to my untrained eye.

will post pic when imageshack stops being gay.

This post has been edited by trdee: 22 February 2008 - 10:17 PM

[ae82rollaboy]

trdee,

first of all, you said "one of the bolt holes on the head side is in a different position." i dont get what you mean. in the pics i posted up you cant see any of the boltholes on the head side, you can only see the manifold ports on the quad side, and in the pics of the quads mounted you can see the mating surface of the quad where the trumpet sits. please explain?

and what i was asking you - take a look at the pic of my t3 manifld after i attacked it with the dremel. can you see that the holes are not perfectly round but kinda bowed out at the bottom. what im asking you is whether your silvertop opening is the same shape where it mounts to the t3 manifold.

now, a bit of an update. i got to playing aroud a bit with fitting the manifold. it seems that it does snag on the waterpump housing a bit (more than i originally suspected) so i had to frankenstein it quite a bit with the angle grinder to get it to fit. (see pics) there was plenty of material on the manifld so that wasnt too much of a problem although i had to be careful cos theres now only a little bit of meat for the corner bolt that holds the throttle to grab onto. see pics.

trdee i would imagine your waterpump housing would be identical yeah? except you would still have the full metal water pipe coming out of the housing. (i chopped mine right at the base where it connects to the housing and replaced it with rubber line cos im using a 7a block now and the metal pipe used to cover up the hole for the knock sensor which ive connected again with a modified jaycar knock sensor circuit.)

anyway, i'm guessing if youre running the original metal pipe it would snag slightly more than mine does. i even replaced the 10mm bolt holding it in with a smaller-head phillips bolt (see pics) to try get a bit more clearance.

now it sits fine. i'm gona be bolting everything up tomorrow so i'll let everyone know how it goes. the only thing i'm still a bit iffy on is the collector tank. i would have liked to have tapped an extra set of barbed fittings as a dedicated map sensor feed as mattysshop did at the start of this thread...(which i might do later cos i'll only be using a map when i get off my lazy ass and wire in the microtech) but for the moment i'll try running everything off the one collector. i used some pvc plumbing pipe with 2 caps on either end, and 4*4mm plastic fittings and 1*8mm plastic fitting i got from burson which i epoxied in. i also re-used that 3 prong vac port out of the stock manifold for other things like fpr, charcoal canister, and (later) the map sensor.


SXSeca - i dont know if i'd "recommend" the manifold as such, i guess theres not too much out there in terms of adapter manifolds..and this one is nicely made. i have spent quite a bit of time stuffing around trying to get everything portmatched, and to fit without snagging tho. depends on whether you're willing to spend a bit of time modifying things to fit.
it depends on what trdee tells us...maybe the manifold is a perfect fit for silvertop throttles?


anyway, i'll post up the progress tomorrow (hopefully if all goes to plan it'll run)

cheers, roman

oh, and a word of advice to anyone doing this - you have to remove the 2 studs that sit at either oend for the old manifold as theyre too long now cos the tvis is no longer gonna be there. these are an absolute M#THERF#CKER to get out...(at least they were on mine anyway). lock 2 nuts against each other to remove these, and its well worth soaking them in wd40 and letting it soak in for about a half hour before you remove them.

[trdee]

why can't you run these without t-vis still in there?

[ae82rollaboy]

trdee, on Feb 23 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

why can't you run these without t-vis still in there?

technically you can leave it in there. in my case i decided not to.

TVIS was designed by toyota to compensate for the fact that the bigport 4ag runs bid intake ports. if you have a big inlet port due to the venturi effect/bernoulli's law, for a given volume of air to pass through it the velocity of that air will be slower than if it were to pass through a smaller orifice. (common sense really - if you have a garden hose and you squish the end with your fingers the water squirts out quicker)

each inlet port on the bigport motor has 2 runners going to it from the plenum, at low end rpm when the motor is sucking a smal amount of air, the TVIS system keeps one of these runners closed with a butterfly, thus increasing the velocity of the air-fuel mixture into the head which allows for better fuel atomisation and a more uniform air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber on the intake stroke. This produces more torque. Above 4400rpm the butterflies open, as now the motor is sucking enough air to achieve the required airspeed velocities into the head.

Its like a lot of things (cams, inlet runner length, etc..) theres always a tradeoff. As a general rule of thumb, if you have smaller intake ports you will have more torque down low, but it will run out of puff up high, and vice-versa. TVIS a crude way (designed by yamaha) to have the best of both worlds. if you have a stock 4age and you disconnect the tvis solenoid from the loom then you will notice you are missing a fair bit of low end torque.

I've rebuilt my motor with a 7a block (and i ported the inlet a fair bit), so now the motor has a greater displacement and a greater volumetric efficience...in other words it sucks more air anyway. Plus im running bigger cams, and especially now with quads TVIS will pose more of a restriction than a purpose.

AND, i was running mega short on space (so that the sealed plenum i made does not touch the rear firewall), its already mighty close....and with TVIS gone i had an extra inch or so of room.

can you answer my question in my previous post regarding your silvertop throttles? im keen to know


cheers, roman

This post has been edited by ae82rollaboy: 23 February 2008 - 12:05 PM

[SXseca]

this may sound stupid (and im 99.9999999 percent sure i know they ar edifferent) but i got with ym quads EVERYTHING from teh head back to the air box off an ST20V, and the ports whree it bolts to the head look very very similar to th estock smallport ones :S but obviously they cant be?

[trdee]

I'm pretty sure you will find the bolt holes don't line up

sry ae82rollaboy, I was at work all day mang. They aren't lining up 100% as i am holding em together with one hand and holding the camera with the other, and combined with trying to keep the butterfly open they moved a bit.




the final picture is from the rear (head) side. This is the most telling pic as i left the butterfly closed on purpose so as to try and keep the stuff lined up as much as possible, and as you can see they don't line up absolutely 100%, but they aren't "elliptical" like yours. I'll try to get a better picture when I can be bothered. These are pretty dodgy lol

what i meant about different bolt holes is actually on the trumpets side, you will notice one of the holes is in a different position to yours.

This post has been edited by trdee: 23 February 2008 - 08:10 PM

[ae82rollaboy]

wow, they are different!

yours are perfectly round...take a look at this pic of the stock blacktop manifold:



anyway, progress report:

got it all fitted up and running. the fuel system was a fkn pain in the ass to put back in. both the fuel press reg and the fuel feed line snagged on the throttles, so what i had to do was turn the fpr upside down, and grind the locator tab off the other fuel line so i could mount it parallel to the fuel rail and not perpendicular to it as it came stock. (yes that is a tipex in the fuel line....i just didnt want to get any metal shards in the fuel system)

while i was at it i gave the black rubber seals at the bottom of the injectors a touch of gasketgoo cos they looked like crusty abortions. (the acl VRS kit never came with replacement ones of these when i was doing the rebuild, only the rubber orings for the top. bastard acl )

as for the cold start injector bolt - it runs a very fine pitch thread and after looking through the boltbucket for half an hour and not finding anything i filled the hollow shaft of the bolt with quicksteel and put a pop rivet into the bottom just for good measure. works a charm!!

took it for a spin up and down the street and the thing booooooogies! wow, its so crispy on the throttle in termsof response, and has picked up a fair bit of mid/top punch. because i'm only running the sealed plenum+afm temporarily until i get the microtech wired in i didnt have room inside the plenum for the trumpets, so its sealed directly onto the throttles. as a result its lacking a bit of bottom end torque compared to before...cant wait to piss the plenum off and run open trumpets. (i think i might stick to the stock rubber toyota items as they seem to be longer than anything else aftermarket ive seen out there...which should be good for more torque than the t3 ones for example. (seeing as i'm running a 7a bottom end its not exactly a rev-monster anyway and i dont ususally take it further than 6800-7000rpm.)

anyway, i'll post up some pics of the finished product soon.


cheers, roman

[trdee]

Oh wow. That's a lot more different than I thought. As you can see the silvertop quads are almost perfectly circular, the blacktop ones look like a retarded egg-shape or something. But the bolt holes on the head side are in the same place lol. Congrats on getting it up and running, does it run really rich? I still need to get a silvertop tps and set of gaskets before I can start mine.

[ae82rollaboy]

trdee, on Feb 24 2008, 04:41 PM, said:

Oh wow. That's a lot more different than I thought. As you can see the silvertop quads are almost perfectly circular, the blacktop ones look like a retarded egg-shape or something. But the bolt holes on the head side are in the same place lol. Congrats on getting it up and running, does it run really rich? I still need to get a silvertop tps and set of gaskets before I can start mine.

big job man. make sure you leave enough time to sort out all the little kinder surprises that pop up. (blocking off water lines, re-adjusting the tps, fuel lines, etc etc.)

Dont do what i did and leave it to be finished over the weekend. I was working like some crazed pit-crew mechanic into the night to have the car ready to drive to work this morning

as for running rich - because ive got the afm and not the map everything downstream from it is irrelevant. it still meters out the right amount of fuel. its only if you have a map (with stock ecu) that you will run into problems with mixtures. the reason being that the stock ecu is programmed with the stock manifold parameters, so a voltage reading from the map will correspond with a different amount of air being introduced. thats my understanding of it anyway.

but yeah, actually it runs better than i expected it to. cos ive already changed so much stuff from stock(1.8l bottom end, 280deg cams, exhaust, 11:1 comp, etc etc) my ecu is already struggling to cope as it is and my mixtures are all over the place. i was worried that with quads it might push it over the edge but it seems to run half decently.

cant wait to finally get these microtech wiring issues sorted and wire the f*cker in. my mouth starts watering at the prospect of finally being able to run open trumpets

[trdee]

saweet. oh and i found a silvertop tps at the bottom of the box with the itb,s/plate/trumpets. so all i need now are the gaskets and then it's time to get rollin

[ae82rollaboy]

trdee, on Feb 25 2008, 10:15 AM, said:

saweet. oh and i found a silvertop tps at the bottom of the box with the itb,s/plate/trumpets. so all i need now are the gaskets and then it's time to get rollin

lol, gasketgoo is your friend

shameless plug for loctite copper maxx. this s##t rocks my world!!

[jondee86]

Hiya... going down this road myself, and am just working
thru the vacuum tubes and collector at the moment. I have
a DIY manifold and will be putting a 4mm barb into each
runner for the collector. I will be taking the MAP signal and
the brake booster vacuum from the collector.

FPR vacuum will come from the OEM barb on #4 throttle.

What I would like to know is how to handle the idle-up air
into the runners ?? I'm thinking of hunting down a PWM
valve from a junkyard Toyota, and using that to feed a
dedicated 4mm barb in each runner. Has anyone sorted this
detail and got it running sweet ??

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

Did a bit of reading and see that Link LEM G3 claims to be able to run
a stepper ISCV. So maybe the OEM silvertop valve is the way to go.

Anyone running an AE101 ISCV off an aftermarket ECU ??

Cheers... jondee86

[Talasas]

I don't think running the FPR off a single cylinder is going to work, not if you're using any of the 16V ones. You need to run that off the common vacuum chamber too.

[jondee86]

Talasas, on May 8 2008, 10:58 PM, said:

I don't think running the FPR off a single cylinder is going to work, not
if you're using any of the 16V ones. You need to run that off the common
vacuum chamber too.

Yeah... wondered about that. What's the difference between the AE101
FPR and the AE92 one ?? I was just gonna use the AE92 one because it
was already on the rail, but I have the AE101 one in my box of bits. Is
it a straight swap ??

Cheers... jondee86

[Gonzo14]

How much vacuum should I be reading from each cylinder with a vacuum guage ??

This post has been edited by Gonzo14: 31 May 2008 - 09:54 AM

[David0Lt]

Ok im sooo confused. idk where any of these hoses goto. all i know is one for each throttle bodie..... any one got pics of exactly where to plug these vac lines to my vac manifold?!?! also wheres that one going too the fuel rail line.

[Gonzo14]

Just thought I'd post some pics up of what my setup looks like...
I used the T3 adaptor..



With the 20v "trumpets" facing upward..






Here's my vacuum manifold I'm using at the moment, made it myself it's made out of copper..



Here's one I was using before the current one, I thought it was too big so that's why I made the smaller one, this ones made out of stainless steel..


ohh and it's a bigport...w/o the TVIS, but well, I had no choice, I got the engine without the tvis and all it's bits...and to go searching for all of em isn't really worth it..
The ITBs give more mid range power and top end..and sounds great !!

And just in case you were wondering what the engine is in, it's in a starlet

[trdee]

i thought that engine bay looked phenominally tight

[Gonzo14]

^^ loll , now u know why

[SXseca]

who can i pay to fit ST quads to my smallport head. i have EVERYTHING from teh head back off a ST 20V intake side, and will obviously soure an adaptor manifold. im lazy, and dont wanna risk fuckign it up.

name your price. booze supplied while you work im in newcastle, but can travel

[Gonzo14]

my car runs REALLY REALLY rich loll (map sensored)

This week I'm going to be putting in a Microtech LT10 ecu.
Gonna run it on the dyno as is and a run after it's all wired in and tuned to see the difference it makes.
I'll keep you all posted.

This post has been edited by Gonzo14: 12 July 2008 - 01:49 PM

[trdee]

I'm thinking of going for an adaptronic, need some semblance of fuel economy as the mr2 is my daily driver

[Gonzo14]

ok so the car got dynoed..
the power figures are a little disappointing but that's greatly due to the engine running low compression pistons..
The engine is running the pistons of the latest generation of the 4A-FE engine from the AE101..they are like, dished pistons..

The engine put down 95.5whp
and 375 lb (Tractive effort)...I don't know how to convert it to Nm or lb ft...

I didn't do the "before & after" thing I said I was going to do, sorry about that...I think the car might have given 60-70whp lol (In the ''before'' stage)

The power curve is pretty smooth..I have a print-out of the dyno graph..unfortunately I don't have a scanner..

I think there might be a little power still to be made, as the tuner I went to isn't known as the best tuner here..
I think if I go to an other tuner I know, who I've only heard good things about, I could get to the 100whp mark.

You other people that are running the stock pistons or high compression pistons should expect much more power than this..

Mods :

-Microtech LT10s
-Ported Head
-T3 ITB Adapter
-Silvertop ITBs
-Headers and 2" exhaust
- 0.5mm o/s 4a-fe pistons

This post has been edited by Gonzo14: 12 July 2008 - 01:52 PM

[trdee]

So we really are talking about 20% more power just from itb's and a tune? SWEET

[Gonzo14]

so how's your progress coming along trdee ??
I wonder how ae82rollaboy's is coming along..
would be nice to see some other people's power figures

[trdee]

the manifold adaptor has been machined an an order has been placed for the itb gaskets. i wont be able to dummy fit it this week as the guy who is helping me out with all this is working all week. so next week i should be test fitting it to see if there are any leaks. if there arent then i'll be going off to buy an ecu to run the thing, as the car is a daily driver and even though it will run on the stock MAP, it will run super rich lol.

I only have next week remaining of my uni holidays though, so it's gonna be tight.

[trdee]

question; where would i get the vaccuum lines/t-pieces and vacuum chamber from? repco??

[SXseca]

gonzo, im assuming this is a 4AGE, not a 7AGE? i ha a quick look but couldnt see anything sugesting either.