[Beams]

http://www.itv-f1.co...spx?PO_ID=40651

Alonso and Hamilton to keep championship points.

Discuss.

[GTI-TRD]

Yay! and Boo!

Im glad that they have been punished; I think it is only fair. Its about as unsportmanship like as you can get in such a competitve & highly secretive business where thenths of a second count.
I cant help but wonder if macca's competitivness against Ferrari has been aided by knowledge from the contents of 400+ page document.

Although its not the drivers at fault, I say boo that they didnt lose their points because I am a Ferrari supporter.

[trdee]

it's fkin bullshit i tells ya. they only lose constructors points and the 100million fine is actually far less because the money they have reaped from those points is being subtracted from the fine!!!!

also, considering the gravity of the allegations they should have been excluded from racing for the rest of this season and had all of their points stripped. remember last year(or the year before) BAR was banned for 2 races because of a much smaller infringement than this.......fkin bullshit man.

This post has been edited by trdee: 14 September 2007 - 03:39 PM

[blue]

i wonder if they'll end the season with more points than red bull...

[levinGT]

yeah just saw this on the news..

i'd say they will probably appeal it.. 100,000,000 bucks.. f##k..

[GIVE WAY]

It's such a load of political bullshit. The FIA are in Ferraris pocket.

[Beams]

Stoddart:

"What does FIA stand for? It stands for Ferrari International Assistance and that's been proven time and time again to be the case," Stoddart told pitpass.com.

He pointed to the $100 million paid to Ferrari at a time the manufacturers were threatening to walk away and start a rebel series.

"The FIA has consistently helped Ferrari all the way down the line.

"The only difference is that lately it's been so blatant even a blind man can see it."

...

[oakmont]

so what would be the approx money reaped had mcclarens won the constructors? it could mean the fine be very little in the end.

i also personally think constructors championship isnt worth as much as drivers. so mcclaren can still finish 1-2 in the drivers. kimi will need a miracle to win it now

[Talasas]

It's a very interesting way they chose to go about it. In one way, it was probably the most fair way to punish it, drivers keep their points as they had done nothing wrong. However $100m is more like "we're just helping ourselves tax" than a fine, fair enough it's true that is comes down after the loss calcs are done, then it's just making an example of them. Lets remember that what they allegedly possessed was data they could have used to their advantage and that is cheating and also breaks the laws of the FIA. Either way this whole espionage controversy is so mixed up that I can't see how anyone can make sense of it, which is why I think that handing down the biggest fine in motorsport history is a bit much for such a grey area.

[trdee]

it's really NOT that mixed up. the FIA has emails and sms's from mclaren mechanics telling the drivers "hey try out this new setup, it's from ferrari" and for those who say FIA is in ferrari's back pocket; you might be forgetting the penalty schumacher got in monaco last year, those potential points lost there could've helped him win the championship. and as i said, this punishment is ridiculously light. don't look at the size of the figure (remember schumi was getting more than 30mil a year...so imagine how much a whole team must spend....100mil is nothing to them). rather, look at the fact that mclaren are still being allowed to compete in this championship even though it's proved that they have benefitted from ferrari data......BAR got banned for 2 races cos they were slightly overweight.

More like mclaren has the FIA in it's pocket. just pay a massive bribe and it's all good

This post has been edited by trdee: 16 September 2007 - 08:00 AM

[GIVE WAY]

trdee, on Sep 16 2007, 05:57 AM, said:

it's really NOT that mixed up. the FIA has emails and sms's from mclaren mechanics telling the drivers "hey try out this new setup, it's from ferrari" and for those who say FIA is in ferrari's back pocket; you might be forgetting the penalty schumacher got in monaco last year, those potential points lost there could've helped him win the championship. and as i said, this punishment is ridiculously light. don't look at the size of the figure (remember schumi was getting more than 30mil a year...so imagine how much a whole team must spend....100mil is nothing to them). rather, look at the fact that mclaren are still being allowed to compete in this championship even though it's proved that they have benefitted from ferrari data......BAR got banned for 2 races cos they were slightly overweight.

More like mclaren has the FIA in it's pocket. just pay a massive bribe and it's all good

Wow, you've certainly got a different angle on this one

Schumacher didn't lose any points in monaco, he had his qualifying time stripped. You'll notice nothing happened to Ferrari. Whereas in Hungary when Alonso pulled a similar move albeit not quite as dangerous by hanging around in the pits for longer, Mclaren suddenly get stripped of any points at all for the race. What did Mclaren have to do with that at all? It was all between Alonso and Hamilton and yet the FIA take the opportunity to give Ferrari a little catch up.

Also BAR weren't overweight, their cars were illegally contravening the regulations and had been so all year. That's pretty major.

[trdee]

what about when schumacher pushed villeneuve off the track and had all of his points wiped for the whole year?

edit; my bad about BAR.

This post has been edited by trdee: 18 September 2007 - 08:32 AM

[GTI-TRD]

and Mclaren have to present next years car way before the season; for in-depth analysis & inspection to determine whether they have used any of the info obtained from said documents.
I think this is far from over yet and there is still the possiblilty they will be sanctioned or barred or restricted in the next season.

Im with trdee

[GIVE WAY]

trdee, on Sep 18 2007, 06:31 AM, said:

what about when schumacher pushed villeneuve off the track and had all of his points wiped for the whole year?

That penalty was well deserved because Schumacher's a dirty bastard, but ferrari didn't lose any point there either. Why should McLaren lose points for something their drivers do if they have nothing to do with it?

[GTI-TRD]

I think that Alonso AND his race engineer came up with that little plan @ Hungary. I would say that there were team members involved, not just Alonso acting alone.

[trdee]

GIVE WAY, on Sep 19 2007, 10:24 AM, said:

That penalty was well deserved because Schumacher's a dirty bastard, but ferrari didn't lose any point there either. Why should McLaren lose points for something their drivers do if they have nothing to do with it?

who says they had nothing to do with it? in any case this is about the spy scandal; they have 100% solid proof that the team was involved (thanks alonso you dirty bastard) so they fully deserve any punishment they get. lube up and bend over i say.

seems that mosley thinks likewise; http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/new...917145209.shtml

[GIVE WAY]

trdee, on Sep 19 2007, 09:54 PM, said:

seems that mosley thinks likewise; http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/new...917145209.shtml

Of course he'd say that, he's bum-buddies with ferrari. Mosley would have quit several years ago if ferrari hadn't paid him to stay.

[trdee]

meh. lets agree to disagree

[GIVE WAY]

Agreed

[Beams]

http://www.rtl.nl/(/sport/rtl_gp/formule1/...ies_mclaren.xml

Original documents if anyone is interested. 115 pages long....

I hate Ferrari. People that drive Ferraris arent enthuaists, their just wankers. The problem I see isnt so much to do with the actual decision to punish McLaren (they are guilty... Alonso you bastard) but the serverity. Pointed out before, their have been some minor incidents that have seen Ferrari walk out cleanly.

They have fined them $100USD, and their based in Europe, so first thats interesting. Wheres the money going? Not back into the championship prize (if there is any) like the Nascars in the US. Its going into some guys pocket so he can buy a Ferrari and race Supras and be a wanker.

Stewart: (http://www.itv-f1.co...spx?PO_ID=40771)

“Max Mosley tried to justify it by telling us that it was a small proportion of McLaren’s turnover or their sponsorship or the wealth of the company.

“Would our governing body have fined a team like Spyker the same amount of money? Just because McLaren are a rich team doesn’t change any crime that there may have been.

My point: I dont have one. I hope Alonso crashs into the two Ferraris and Lewis wins.

[Liam]

The fine ($100 mil. minus estimated distribution money for the season) will be split up amongst all the other teams, with a portion left for funding young driver programs.

Can someone tell me how all this got out in the open in the first place? I haven't really been following anything lately. I heard something about Alonso approaching the FIA with information after a request for Ron Dennis to back him over Hamilton for the championship was declined. What's the truth behind that one?

[trdee]

Liam, on Sep 22 2007, 04:08 PM, said:

The fine ($100 mil. minus estimated distribution money for the season) will be split up amongst all the other teams, with a portion left for funding young driver programs.

Can someone tell me how all this got out in the open in the first place? I haven't really been following anything lately. I heard something about Alonso approaching the FIA with information after a request for Ron Dennis to back him over Hamilton for the championship was declined. What's the truth behind that one?

yep that's what i've heard too.

and beams, many people that drive ferraris are wankers who get them for the badge. but that does not mean anything about the cars themselves. I love ferraris, but not for the gay wanker factor, simply because i have always loved their designs, both in body and motor. and if ferrari make a s##t car im not afraid to admit it. 612 scaglietti is ugly as s##t for example

[GIVE WAY]

Liam, on Sep 22 2007, 02:08 PM, said:

Can someone tell me how all this got out in the open in the first place? I haven't really been following anything lately. I heard something about Alonso approaching the FIA with information after a request for Ron Dennis to back him over Hamilton for the championship was declined. What's the truth behind that one?

Originally it came out because Ferrari alleged Stepney sabotaged their cars at monaco. Then they reckon he stole the data and gave it to Coughlan, so police searched Coughlan's house and found the CD. The very latest was Alonso went to Dennis and said he had email records that would prove the FIA's case against McLaren and he would hand them over to the FIA unless Dennis made him #1 in the team. To which Dennis told him to take his evidence straight to the FIA.

[trdee]

...to which alonso did. and got immunity for doing it even though he was just as guilty as the rest.....the devious bastard. I seriously hope noone takes that #### on next year